Sante's TG signature, and CAGDC status

[drevans]

I wandered over here from TG. When SanTe left he posted a link to this site in his signature. I thought I'd check it out and I wonder if a quite a few other have stumbled over here because of the "incident".

[johnbart]

Maybe it was all a ruse set up to get some free advertising for the site?  Mark, what did you give SanTe to have that thread blow up into a big debacle?

[SanTe]

Maybe it was all a ruse set up to get some free advertising for the site?  Mark, what did you give SanTe to have that thread blow up into a big debacle?

I'm sure this was said in jest but regardless, I don't like the implications of these types of perceptions.

For the record, I left TG's forums for a variety of reasons but these were the two big catalysts:

1) This summer when Donald Hayes achieved the first verified perfect Pac-Man Turbo someone at TG with admin level forum privileges went into Eric Akeson's profile and edited his sig to remove Eric's reference to his now-topped WR.  This happened within just a few hours of the announcement and while Eric was at work.  He would have gladly changed his sig himself when he got home but a ref/admin didn't even give him the chance.  This was the worst kind of personal violation I could imagine as a TG supporter, and I was ready to raise hell and leave TG entirely back then if TG did not address the situation to Eric's satisfaction.  Walter and a few refs did post public apologies with assurances that they'd get to the bottom of it.  Whether or not they did no one knows, as their complete lack of transparency precluded them from posting a followup with their findings and an explanation of how they intended to prevent a similar violation from happening again in the future.  To keep the peace Eric asked me to drop it and I did so, but I was never okay with their non-resolution on this matter as it exemplifies the worst about TG's methods of conducting themselves in the time since they have gained new ownership.

2) Rumors surfaced this summer that a referee was sitting on previously submitted and verified tapes from TriForce on a Street Fighter title (I don't remember which variant or platform now but I believe it was Arcade, as tapes were involved).  When TriForce's score was topped by another gamer and the new record was posted TriForce's next highest score -- not even his highest submitted mind you, but only the next highest score necessary to regain the lead -- was immediately posted that same day, taking back the record within hours.  This amounts to nothing more than unsportsmanlike one-upmanship and, this may be just my personal opinion but I feel very strongly about this, it was completely unethical on the part of the referee who agreed to do this if it indeed happened.  Then it came out that it did indeed happen, and even worse it was a Senior Referee who did it, which means he definitely should have known better.  Said referee lives in the same town, same neighborhood even, as TriForce, and is reportedly a buddy of his.  Whether or not anything shady went on is almost beside the point here -- when the ref lives in the same neighborhood and is known to be a friend to one of the competitors an appearance of conflict of interest exists, whether the referee wants to admit it or not, and it is critical not only that the rules be followed but that all behaviors with even the appearance of favoritism be avoided.  If the tapes were submitted for instructional purposes only, say to educate a ref on possible cheating tactics to watch for, that's one thing, but these scores were submitted.  Even if they lived six states apart and didn't know each other personally it is still clearly unethical and unfair to all other gamers to sit on tapes for this purpose.  The Senior Ref didn't see a problem with it and said, "If anyone thinks TG is corrupt, there's the door. ->"  So I made a decision for me: I walked through it.

When valid complaints are ignored, not just from me but from a variety of gamers over the course of the year I spent on TG's forums, and that is the response we get for constructive criticism?...  Then I no longer feel the need to submit scores or participate in building their forum community if this is how they are going to treat their customers.  It's been made clear to all of us that TG is now a business, with revenues and profits in their future plans, so this is even less excusable.  I didn't call for a boycott.  I didn't recruit anyone to leave with me.  I just voted with my feet, and I left a temporary note (since deleted) in my TG forum sig letting others know where they could find me if they cared to do so.  I wish TG well in their future endeavors.  I hope they grow and succeed.

The downside to all of this is that MDA has asked me more than once over the last several months, with the idea first voiced at Funspot X, to become an admin for these forums because with all of the growth and activity he can no longer adequately keep up and he needs the help.  I was seriously considering doing so, but now I can clearly see that if I accepted and became a CAGDC admin that there are people who could get the wrong idea and think it was all a ruse, and I'd wind up doing more harm than good.  Also, I recently made a modest financial contribution towards CAGDC via PayPal to help offset MDA's hosting costs.  (Link on the main page about 3/4 of the way down, to the right of "TRADE OR SALE PAGE: MARQUEES, POSTERS, SIGNS, FLYERS, & OTHER ARCADE ITEM MEMORABILIA.")  It didn't even occur to me at the time but in hindsight I probably should have waited until some time after becoming an admin before doing that.

I left TG because of my own personal principles, period.  I'm used to others not having or valuing the same principles that I do, but I'm not going to willingly walk into a situation where I can be accused of violating my own principles for personal gain, perceived or otherwise.

[RTM]

Hi Sante:

     On point 2, the only time I ever intentionally used admin privileges to change an active user's signature or user account was when either (A) a non-TG approved website was linked, typically drugs, adult, retailer, etc, or (B) offensive language was contained within the signature, such as, but not limited to, "Best F___ng NES'er Around", and the like.

     Otherwise, I think changing a gamer's signature which contains a score/rank notice is unwarranted. Even sending a courtesy PM alerting the gamer as to the new record holder can result in problems, misinterpretations, etc.

     I think the general forum community, in it's collective wisdom and weight, can effect the best change by chiming in appropriately. Or just PM the user with a link to the article announcing the new score as a matter of interest to them ("I think you will find this article of interest").

     And, if after a noticeable length of time the active user opts not to change their sig, then there is no playbook that says what to do next. As for clearly inactive user's sigs, that's a whole differeny ballgame to some extent, but I have no rulebook for how to handle that either.

     Unfortunately, some will never change their sig...and in one notable case, their website. Need I even mention who ?

[johnbart]

Maybe it was all a ruse set up to get some free advertising for the site?  Mark, what did you give SanTe to have that thread blow up into a big debacle?

I'm sure this was said in jest but regardless, I don't like the implications of these types of perceptions.

For the record, I left TG's forums for a variety of reasons but these were the two big catalysts:

SanTe,

I assure you my comment was only made in jest.  I witnessed all of the threads on TG that you mentioned and agree 100% with your assessment.  They are part of the reason that I rarely post on their forums and choose to interact with this community.

[rudy j. ferretti]

I wont be on the TG forums prob at all, and you know why so there is NO way I can have a problem there again

[MDARULZ]

Maybe it was all a ruse set up to get some free advertising for the site?  Mark, what did you give SanTe to have that thread blow up into a big debacle?

I'm sure this was said in jest but regardless, I don't like the implications of these types of perceptions.

For the record, I left TG's forums for a variety of reasons but these were the two big catalysts:

...

The downside to all of this is that MDA has asked me more than once over the last several months, with the idea first voiced at Funspot X, to become an moderator (mod) for these forums because with all of the growth and activity he can no longer adequately keep up and he needs the help.  I was seriously considering doing so, but now I can clearly see that if I accepted and became a CAGDC admin that there are people who could get the wrong idea and think it was all a ruse, and I'd wind up doing more harm than good.  Also, I recently made a modest financial contribution towards CAGDC via PayPal to help offset MDA's hosting costs.  (Link on the main page about 3/4 of the way down, to the right of "TRADE OR SALE PAGE: MARQUEES, POSTERS, SIGNS, FLYERS, & OTHER ARCADE ITEM MEMORABILIA.")  It didn't even occur to me at the time but in hindsight I probably should have waited until some time after becoming an admin before doing that.

I left TG because of my own personal principles, period.  I'm used to others not having or valuing the same principles that I do, but I'm not going to willingly walk into a situation where I can be accused of violating my own principles for personal gain, perceived or otherwise.

As Chris has noted, the signature at TG (and his leaving) was because of specific issues over there that he had with them.  I didn't know about the link in his TG forums signature until somebody told me (not even him, I think).  I also link to my site in my sig there, and various people posting at TG occasionally link to these forums or my site, or they may say "Google classic arcade gaming forums", or something like that, so I get plenty of surf-ins from all of those sources.

Anyway, please know that there's no real 'plan' to drive traffic here.  TG's own changes the last year or so has accomplished that more than anyone (or any plan) could !  Hey, I'm not even downing them - it's just that their current route is such that the 'core' group (at least, as far as the arcade 'crowd') is less and less a focus, IMO.

As Chris said, I've asked him on a few occasions over the last few months if he might be interested in being a forums mod, in order to help me, if I can't keep up with a thread, or help take care of a problem poster I haven't noticed.  The reason I thot of him first, even over others who've been on the forums longer, or have a higher post count, is that he is a dedicated regular, that seems to never be 'away' for more than a day, and he's also a very articulate and knowledgeable writer, as far as a variety of subjects.  Some others that I've considered for this first forums position either aren't able to check in as often, or take breaks (on occasion) of multiple days, and also may not have time or interest in reading most every post put up here.

Now, that's not to say that there aren't a number of others who are just as capable, and deserving of a position where you could help out too !  I think I might pick a couple of others in the coming months who would be interested, and willing, to be in a position to occasionally move problem posts, or even posts that aren't a problem, but are mis-categorized.  If you are interested, and have a minimum of 6 months on these forums (look at your profile for your join date), and also 300+ posts, PM me.  But, again, if you can't (or don't) check in daily the majority of the time, and also don't fully read most of the posts put up, then you probably aren't a candidate, in all fairness.

Oh - one final note about Chris.  He indeed financially contributed recently to the website, but I had already decided to make him a mod before that, and even if I had not, that would have no influence (and, that's not why he contributed, of course).

In summary - Chris is one of the most down-to-earth, knowledgeable, and fair persons that I've met, and I knew he would be a great choice for this position after just talking to him in person at Funspot this summer for a couple of days.  Those who've chatted with him in person or via phone know what I mean.

So, congrats to you Chris, and welcome aboard as what I might call the first 'staff' member at CAGDC !  I just hope you can keep up with the hour or so of extra time it will take per week ! 

[SanTe]

Thanks Mark.    I promise my actions as a moderator will be with a light touch, housekeeping mostly.  No locking threads or deleting posts, just moving threads/posts where they should be and editing overly foul language if necessary, and maybe an occasional prod for folks to be more civil to each other and to either stay on topic or start a new thread.  Anything questionable content-wise will be flagged for MDA to check out.  I don't expect to have to ban anyone other than obvious spammers and I understand the forum software does an excellent job of preventing spammers' bots from successfully joining and/or posting in the first place.

[GDL]

Thanks Mark.    I promise my actions as a moderator will be with a light touch, housekeeping mostly.  No locking threads or deleting posts, just moving threads/posts where they should be and editing overly foul language if necessary, and maybe an occasional prod for folks to be more civil to each other and to either stay on topic or start a new thread.  Anything questionable content-wise will be flagged for MDA to check out.  I don't expect to have to ban anyone other than obvious spammers and I understand the forum software does an excellent job of preventing spammers' bots from successfully joining and/or posting in the first place.

Hey, congrats Chris!  Mark and the classic arcade scene are lucky to have you around!

[Dantes]

Congrats on your assignment to moderater-status, SanTe! I'm sure you'll do a good job of it.

[U.K Jon]

Well done Chris.  Keep up the good work.

[ben]

Nice bananas. 

[rudy j. ferretti]

Very nice congrats

[LMDAVE]

I wanted to say this about TG vs. CAGDC. I like the conversations here and the posting has been more regular than TG lately, so it's more lively here.

However, I sometimes feel, through read certain posts, that there is a desire to have someone choose sides between here and TG. I'm sure I'm not the only one, but I like this place and I like TG. I try to disregard any TG bashing I may read because, for the most, I like what they do, even though it doesn't meet everyone's expectations. But, I like the community here also.

[Eric98375]

I first met Chris last spring at the NW Pinball & Gameroom show in Seattle.... Chris and I have become fast friends in the past 6 months, and I can only echo MDA's comments.... Chris is a very intelligent, articulate, trustworthy, and fair individual.... I am certain he will do a great job in this role...

Congrats Mansfield!

-E