MC track ball speed at Funspot...

[Weehawk]

The comment was directed towards me.

Not necessarily.

I believe what Ken was saying was that, given these two facts:

1) All the original Missile Command machines had large trakballs.

2) All the original Missile Command machines had the slow cursor speed

then if one (anyone) is unable to deduce that the slow cursor speed was intended for the large trakball, then that person (anyone) is a "RETARD".

Yes, his choice of words was undiplomatic.

[AtHomeTech]

The comment was directed towards me.

Not necessarily.

I believe what Ken was saying was that, given these two facts:

1) All the original Missile Command machines had large trakballs.

2) All the original Missile Command machines had the slow cursor speed

then if one (anyone) is unable to deduce that the slow cursor speed was intended for the large trakball, then that person (anyone) is a "RETARD".

Yes, his choice of words was undiplomatic.

That's at least two people who had the brain power to put what I said in proper context. UK Jon, that comment was not purposefully directed at you. It just so happens your responses were less than logical and you were simple sticking up for TT because he's your 'mate'. I can respect your sticking up for the players choice option but the 'easy' vs 'hard' is VERY VERY VERY clear... The setting is big trakball/small trakall. My position is the same, if you cant see that then you are RETARDED (this may or may not include you UK Jon).

-Ken

[3rd elevator]

I'm not super familiar with the game, or any trackball games really. But I was just thinking maybe there could be a few different categories for the world record in regards to trackball weight and speeds. The way I see it the original factory settings would probably trump the other "changed" settings, as far as getting validity from twingalaxies big wigs. But to me and videogame fans all over the world, it is impressive to get world records on hard games such as Missile command no matter how it is achieved. To me it is like getting the record with your feet. Obviously, to get these kind of records you had to have invested alot of practice and time to get it. Plus it seems many different M.C. players use the same settings as other players so it would still answer the age old question of who is the #1 best player ever. Besides, if someone really wanted to prove they were the be-all-end-all to the game, I'd say that would be the guy who could get the high score in all trackball settings.

[pacmantab]

Jon, I for one would not mind "taking the heat," at least to some degree, for Ken's less-than-tactful remarks, as I was the one who actually asked a key question about his machine, and followed up with my thoughts - leading to the current debate that put me in jeopardy of being classified as "mentally challenged."  Such unnecessary posturing and inappropriate choice of words was not what I wanted to happen.  Apologies to all.

That said I should reiterate a point I made earlier:  I understand the view of Ken, etc. that this small-large trakball thing is "so blatently obvious that anyone arguing against it MUST not understand, or can NOT understand (see 'mentally challenged')."  That said I maintain that I do not have to agree with said view to understand it.

If current players decide to play on the "hard" setting today, that's their call - I think SanTe mentioned a long-standing TG philosophy in which players could play on a harder setting if they really wanted to (apologies if I have my source wrong)...which not only shows a precedent existed for this "players choice" ruling, but makes using their scores as the basis for splitting tracks more like splitting hairs IMO.

That leaves us, really, with only ONE other reason to split the tracks...or should I say ONE other player.  And, based on the video link I provided a page or two ago, he could have easily been playing on the "easy" setting in 1985 anyway.  So again, back to basing a push for a change on something we believe was the case, or believe should be the case despite what the current owners manual says.

[Weehawk]

I maintain that I do not have to agree with said view to understand it.

A completely unrelated amusing thought occurs to me:

A first-grader who says "I don't understand that one plus one equals two" should be held back a year.

A first-grader who says "I understand the proposition that one plus one equals two full well, but I don't agree with it" should go into politics.....and be held back a year.

 

[AtHomeTech]

That said I should reiterate a point I made earlier:  I understand the view of Ken, etc. that this small-large trakball thing is "so blatently obvious that anyone arguing against it MUST not understand, or can NOT understand (see 'mentally challenged')."  That said I maintain that I do not have to agree with said view to understand it.

Are you really saying you understand that its large/small trakball but you dont agree its large/small trakball? You are holding out that its a hard/easy setting? Seriously? 

[pacmantab]

The third printing does not even mention an ON setting. The setting only makes sense one direction and most of the evidence points that way. I can see where the confusion comes in [though]. Personally I believe you can get used to and play either way so players choice it is!

-Ken

At this juncture, I am inclined to hold you to the above...especially the final sentence.  Let's just agree to disagree on the rest and hopefully let this issue die (or at least slip back into a comatose state)....

[LMDAVE]

Just to throw something else into the mix, if you check MC on MAME, the dip switch settings are for LARGE/MINI track ball. Now on MAME, the fast is called Large, and the slow is called MINI....opposite of what we are saying here - fast vs. slow is verified on how the fast the mouse cursor moves on the two settings. I, myself, am also an advocate that slow = large trackball, but contradicts MAME.

But, who is responsible in MAME of putting the correct text to the dip switch settings in MAME. That person could have been confused also on what is the right text to put in for either on or off.

[Weehawk]

slow = large trackball, but contradicts MAME.

Yes, they are labeled backwards in MAME.

But, who is responsible in MAME of putting the correct text to the dip switch settings in MAME. That person could have been confused also on what is the right text to put in for either on or off.

All they could do was go by whatever manual they had available. Yes, some of the manuals were wrong.

[tb lilley]

FWIW I don't agree that MAME has got it wrong.

One thing we can probably all agree on is that DIP4@R8 ON acts as a `dampner' i.e. it slows the cursor speed down.

So MAME says MINI = SLOW. Sounds right enough to me. When you flick the switch to ON the cursor slows. The big question is why, under what circumstances, would you want to slow the cursor down. A reasonable answer might be because under particular circumstances the cursor is too fast/twitchy.

Again, FWIW, the cursor is too fast/twitchy if the MINI trak-ball is used, rather than the MAXI.

That is the purpose of DIP4@R8 - you turn it on when the MINI trak-ball is in use. You need to slow the cursor down. The MINI trak-ball is a fiddly piece of kit to use. It's tiny when compared to the MAXI, plus the spacing of the `holes' in the MINI optical wheel are tiny when compared to the MAXI.

I also disagree that the 2nd ROM set was introduced at the same time as the MINI trak-ball. It was not. The early MC cocktails used ROM set 1 - I know, because I used to have one. The 2nd ROM set was introduced when the MC cabaret came along (introduced later than both the full U/R and cocktail). Why was ROM set 2 introduced at that time? Answer: Because if you stick a 1st ROM set MC PCB into a cabaret it thiks it is sat in an upright, with a MAXI trak-ball attached to it. Result? Overly twitchy/fast cursor speed. This was not a problem with the cocktail - a ROM set 1 PCB knows when it is sat in a cocktail (and that a MINI trak-ball is in use) on account of the second set of (2 player) controls that are attached to the PCB. Look at the Schems - there is clearly a pin that is used to identify that the board should operate in cocktail mode.

All of that can be `proved' by taking an original 1st set of MC ROMs and putting that board in either a cabaret, or a cocktail with the player 2 controls unplugged.

The biggest red herring in all of this, is that the original ROM set plays at the slower trak-ball setting when in an upright and that this must therefore be the `right' setting. I agree entirely that this was the only setting at the time - but I'll say this - for me, the game ran like a dog with 3 legs.

My view is that they simply gave the cursor speed a nice little speed bump when they introduced the second ROM set. Making it a far more enjoyable game to play.

BTW - I really couldn't give a stuff about TG, or who plays using which settings. I'm just hugely interested in the history of the game.