Super Pac-Man vs. 'smoke and mirrors'

[***PL***]

Les, first off congrats on smashing the WR!  After all the effort, you clearly deserve recognition!   

I had one concern when playing.  It appeared that there was TWO sets of "settings" in the TG GOLD book, for one unlimited which was obvious and one for 5 man as I had menioned there was a rule change in 2003 by "cubeman".    But I didn't see any 5 man scores............. listed.

This is still not clear to me if TG has both TGTS and TGMS settings.  Yes, the 2 TG books treat the title as a marathon game, however, the cubeman's website (whose name is Mark Longridge) has both sets of settings:

http://cubeman.org/  (click video game links, then click TGTS)

However, examining the TG website, the settings for Super Pac-man are listed specifically as 5 MEN ONLY...

http://www.twingalaxies.com/index.aspx?c=22&pi=2&gi=314&vi=292

Furthermore, your score on TGTS is your final 6 man score of 5,318,800 and not the aforementioned 5 man 5,059,620.

Les, it may be in your best interest to straighten up the score, game settings and tracks with TG, otherwise there will continue to be confusion.  I don't think you want to leave anything to chance, if you know what I mean.

I pay attention to details too   

[Eric98375]

Les,

The multi-board's manufacturer was "Retro-cade".  The guy who did the restoration on my cocktail installed it before I bought it.

I don't like those multi board additions to my original pcb's as they make them unacceptable for WR submissions (except D2K of course!!).... that's what my Multicade is for..... So I traded it to this local guy who works on classic cabs and repairs pcb's.  I think he sold it on eBay recently for a bunch of money.... but that's ok, he's a good guy and helps a lot of local gamers out.   

I did a search on the net and couldn't come up with anything.... I guess that multi board was rare.... maybe I should have kept it.  Ah well!!   

[superpacwus]

Mr, Frogger,
                  So who does this?

                  Walter?

                  I tried to give a history of the score tracking as I personally observed it and was told by Walter.

                  The rules according to Walter was what I posted about.

                  When are you going to push the frog to 700,000 and beyond?   

                  Rick Carter posted the fact that the site somewhere showed the marathon settings.

                  Maybe he can clear up this detail.

                  I can tell you Gary and Randy use the book which is what Walter said the settings were.

                  To me it is simple:

                  Track both ROM sets (Japan and USA -Midway with unlimited and 5 settings).

                  Can't help but thinking that Billy Mitchell must be real good friends with Fothergill and Dwayne is the front man.

                  If I didn't play would there be any question?
                 
                  Status quo.  Status Quo.

                  I sure don't fit in the world of status quo.

                  MAY 30/31 2008 FUNSPOT X
                  SUPER PAC-MAN Results by Les Martin
                 
                  Here is how Les doesn't get chumpatized.............

                  2,289,060   1 man
                  5,059,620   5 men
                  5,318,800   6 men                   
                                    
                 Meanwhile Les is getting better and better.........................

                 Oops.  That disrupts the status quo.

                I just like remembering Tony Temple's comment after the game with Jon from the UK:

                "Hey mate, great game, the monsters would sure like to go to the pub with us and get a drink! Wore them out you did mate, good job".     

                 My wife has looked at all this and said:

                 So where is their score to beat you?

                 Do you get to question and CHALLENGE THE SETTINGS if THEY PUT UP A SCORE ?

                 Didn't you play on the machine the previous record holder played on  at the same location?

                 Didn't you check the settings more thoroughly with documentation than the 1 million score player?

                 Did you check to see if the previous record holder struggle for hours to get that score?

                  A 1,000,000 score range means he doesn't understand the game properly for high scoring.

                 He probably took a good a part of the day to do this score didnt he?

                 WHERE is their score?   Did the guy watching your game play recently?  Did he discover the difficulty is different than from what he used to play on the machine there?   

                 What was his score after your free lessons to him?

                 Why don't you just go back and shut their mouths up for good.............

                 Turn the game over and see if they can count properly".

               Not bad for a lady with a Computer Science degree with Honors.

               
               hERE IS THE KICKER: from the cube man SITE ........

              Twin Galaxies Tournament Settings for Original and Emulated Arcade Games
------------------------------------------------------------------------

N/A = Not Applicable

Difficulty Settings last updated on ***June 20th, 2004***

               Super Pacman         

              (Unlimited)           Rank 8         3       30,000    every 100,000   Superpac & Superpcm
              (5 men only)          Rank 8         3       30,000   2nd at 100,000   Superpac & Superpcm
             

             [ Note that all arcade scores tracked to date use unlimited settings

              Both the Namco and the Bally/Midway romsets will be tracked for
               unlimited and 5 men, making a total of 4 categories ]

             Fothergill seems to have played his game BEFORE the 5 men only settings were developed which is June 20, 2004.

            After all the cubeman speaketh and saith:  ALL SCORES TRACKED TO DATE USE UMLIMITED SETTINGS
           

               
                 
             

[U.K Jon]

I know one thing Les, I wouldn't like to challenge you to a 2 player 'head to head' 

[***PL***]

                  So who does this?

                  Walter?      

Yes, I would go straight to Walter.  This is too important and I'm sure Dave Nelson would get involved as well, if not already.   

For the sake of simplicity, and some may take issue:  it might make sense for TG to "convert" all existing scores to count as 5 men only.

Since you have raised the bar considerably, others even with the advantage of extra men @ 100K still can't reach your score with just 5.

[Permafrostrick]

Pat, Les had discussed the settings with Walter in great detail before the 10 million he did years ago...and I think even before recent Funspot performances.

My understanding is TG had just the marathon settings as you see on Mark L's page.
However, when Mark L created the "TGTS" in 1999-2001, it was specifically for the first Funspot tournament.  He wanted more difficult settings for most games to limit the gameplay to better suit tournament conditions.

as years passed since then, so many have dominated the games that TGTS is now applied as more like "standard" TG settings for most tracks.

The 5-men track was added as "tournament" the TGTS.  At this point you had 2 settings for super pacman...the "traditional" TG settings which were marathon...and the new 5-man TGTS.

However, when I was a ref and was consulting with Mark L a lot...because he was stopping the rules coverage...which I took over for about a year, I discovered he had the wrong rom set listed for this game for mame.

Mark told me that at the live MAME tournament he had at Funspot they played Super Pacman...but used the "superpac" rom set.

I told him the differences....mainly that pac speed when super is about 30% faster on superpac(Japan/Namco set) versus the superpcm rom set(Bally/Midway/North America) set which is what the TG arcade track was using.

Mark then added the 2 additional tracks for the superpcm rom set also.  He did not want to remove the superpac rom set because he and TG did not want to remove the scores from that tournament from the scoreboard.

[superpacwus]

Rick,
         It appears that Fothergill played on a cocktail model which must not be there anymore.

         I have a realplayer file I found online and it appears he played a cocktail model.......... 

         So maybe he had the game set properly to R8.

         Regardless, I have beaten his score with 5 men.

         The site should post both group of settings for BOTH Japan and USA romsets.

         4 total tracks to cover.  If TG agrees.

         Then I will ask Walter to let me do a marathon, which I think is defined as more than 12 hours and see what I can do.

         This seems logical and maybe will attract Japanese players to come to Funspot 11.

         World War III Super Pac Style...........................

         USA versus Japan

         And the winner is 

           

         

[Permafrostrick]

TG did already agree...cuz Mark L's page at that time WAS the TG rules page.

Ron C's site had the rules for various console games.

This "modern" TG site was just getting started in 2004...but still separated in pieces on different hosts..like Mark's site, and Ron's etc.

the only reason the "superpac" rom set is tracked for MAME is because of that first tournament.  to keep things "easy", Mark had decided just to use the "parent" rom set for whatever games were in the contest.  "superpac" is the parent rom set...but not the same rom set as the superpac arcade machine played in North America that TG was tracking for many many years where most were Bally/Midway distributions...and a different rom set a little bit harder than the Japanese set...which is true for many games actually.


BTW I agree...let's even suppose that cocktail had right settings etc. 1.1 million is an excellent score.  5 million is a stupendous score.

ok, time for you to set a ludicrous score!  hehe

[Eric Liddell]

I was at funspot X and watched Les play to 5,000,000. Todd was right there sitting on a stool watching the whole game too.  Les just dominates that game. He could get whatever score he wants.  way to go Les!

 

[***PL***]

It appears that Fothergill played on a cocktail model which must not be there anymore.

I can confirm that Rick F.'s then WR was played on a cocktail version.  I was playing right next to him during Coronation Day back in January 2000.

[Permafrostrick]

that's cool....

would be great to meet Rick F someday....wonder if he would ever show up at one of these Funspot events or other tournaments/get-togethers?

[***PL***]

A lot of the Canadians have been notably absent the last few FS tourneys.  It used to be a strong rivalry, but not so much lately!!   

[pacmantab]

Could see a "world cup" atmosphere like we had in NYC last year:

American Les Martin, Canadian Rick Fothergill, and (maybe) Japan represented....

Would be cool to see...

[SanTe]

I might call the arcade Back In Time.

Better yet, call it "Flux Capacitor."

It's what makes time travel possible. 

[PacWhiz]

Sweet cocktail model.

I hope to build a mini arcade one day.

Then I will invite Aaart from the Haag, Gary and Jon from the UK......................

And we will go back in time.

Having great fun.

Of course Rick Carter and Mikey and david will be there too.

And the King of Video Games can come and do a 4.1 on Drag race.

Again.                This smiley looks like Todd in glasses.     

I might call the arcade Back In Time.

My wife says I can build it.

If I build they will come.

LOL!  That sounds great!!
I'd definitely be there, thx Les! 

Great thread, i've read every single word! And Les...
the SuperPac-Master Title is very officially YOURS, and everybody darnwell knows it 

Can't believe your 6-man score was put up instead of 5 tho...
oh well, in Dutch we have a saying that goes something like:
"wherever humans work, there will always be mistakes..."

I agree with the separate tracks for SuperPac... should be done... asap.
I think it should also be done for other titles such as MsPac & Galaxian.
MsPac in Mame because of the "tunnel-anomaly" present in all Mame-versions newer than 0.90, effecting much easier tunnel-escape on slow junior-boards especially. (Except for the latest version 0.126u3 - coz Eric M. and I got it fixed - thx to the Mame-developers, they're awesome!).
MsPac on arcade because of killscreen scores and non-ks scores, and perhaps even fastest time to reach ks.
Galaxian both in Mame and on arcade because of the 2 distinctly different romsets, causing varying missile-direction and differences in enemy-attacks.

All-in-all i think TG is just absolutely great tho, and besides the total thrill of meeting all the players, i enjoyed meeting Walter and all the refs equally as much; and the FunSpot staff... what can you say, patient pros and great personalities!

As for the petty ppl making huffs, and showering us with their ignorant negativism, green is their color if you know what i mean. They feed on our responses; ignore them and they shall go away...(to sulk at their own shortcomings, i'm sure).

I'd say if anyone has a comment or criticism or challenge about any score, let them appear in public as Les did, and put their money where their mouth is, or forever hold their peace, please!
Altho... that'd make forums kinda dull

Looking forward to meeting "y'all" real soon again! ... November, anyone? 

~Aart